Matthew 24 Messiah Coming In The Clouds With Power And Great Glory

This Olivet Discourse Deception study provides an explanation for the fulfillment of Messiah coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory, in Matthew 24.

And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.” Matthew 24:30

Messiah is not talking about His second coming, but rather to His coming in great power and glory in judgment of the Jews, who had rejected Him and delivered Him up to be killed.

Before we focus on the words in the verse, let’s put it in its proper context; with other, similar statements from Messiah.

In Matthew 10:23, Messiah declared to His disciples that they would not have gone through the cities of Israel before He came in power:

When they persecute you in this city, flee to another. For assuredly, I say to you, you will not have gone through the cities of Israel before the Son of Man comes.”

In Matthew 16:28, Messiah declared that some of His disciples would see Him come into His kingdom:

Assuredly, I say to you, there are some standing here who shall not taste death till they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom.

In Matthew 26:63-64, Messiah told the High Priest that he would see Him come in the clouds of heaven, meaning in judgment.

And the high priest arose, and said unto him, Answerest thou nothing? what is it which these witness against thee? But Jesus held his peace. And the high priest answered and said unto him, I adjure thee by the living God, that thou tell us whether thou be the Christ, the Son of God. Jesus saith unto him, Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.

Should we not believe Messiah’s clear statement, that the High Priest would witness Him coming on the clouds of heaven, which matches the description in Matthew 24:30?

He was telling the High Priest that though I look powerless now, you will witness my resurrection, as I fulfill the sign that I gave to you of rising after three days.

And that he would see Messiah come in great power and glory when the temple and city and Jews would be destroyed, because He rejected Him as Messiah and delivered Him up to be killed.  Just as the High Priest was judging him and condemning him to die, so too did Messiah judge the High Priest and condemn him to die.

Either those verses are referring to Messiah’s second advent in the first century, which did not happen; Or it is referring to Him coming in power to desolate the Jews; Or Messiah is mistaken. That’s the only three options.

Applying His statements to the end times takes them out of context, as He told His disciples and the High Priest that they would see these things happen.

Then just three verses later Messiah said in Matthew 24:34,

Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.”

When Messiah makes a plain statement, we should not dismiss it, just because we don’t understand the fulfillment.

He was clearly saying that all of the things that He just stated in the previous verses would be fulfilled in that generation.

To reinforce that, after berating the Jewish leaders and casting woes on them in Matthew 23, He said in verses 35-36, that they would be killed in their generation.

That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar. Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.

And within a Biblical generation of 40 years, history proves that in fact that the disciples and the High Priest, did see Him come in power and glory; when He caused the Roman army to desolate Jerusalem, the temple and the Jewish leadership system.

This matches the prophecy in Daniel 9:26-27, that foretold the coming of our Messiah, and that He would be delivered up by the Jews to death; and that as a consequence, the city and the temple and the Jews would be desolated.

..and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined. …and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.”

The whole context of the Olivet Discourse was that after Messiah berated the Jewish leaders, He proclaimed to His disciples, that the temple would be desolated,

And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.”

The disciples were not asking about the end times, they were asking about when the temple would be destroyed.

And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

The word ‘world‘ should be rendered as ‘age‘, as the New King James has it. The latter days of the Jewish age started when they were released from Babylon, after 70 years of captivity; and ended in 70 A.D., when the temple, the city and the Jews were desolated.

The former days were before the Babylonian captivity. In between the two ages was 70 years of captivity when they did not possess the Holy land.

So let’s look at the verse now that we have a proper perspective of its context:

And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.” Matthew 24:30

The Jewish leaders were always asking Messiah to give them a ‘sign‘ to prove His power and glory.  The Greek word for sign is semeion, which was used by John often to refer to Jesus’ miracles; the word itself denotes a token of identification or verification.

He gave them the sign of rising again after they had delivered Him up to be killed, with the analogy of Him being the temple.  “Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.” John 2:19

Then He judged the Jewish leaders and He gave them the sign of destroying their magnificent temple, desolating Jerusalem and the Jews; which proved His power and glory.

The word ‘tribes‘ is referring to the people of the land of Judea.  Some from the House of Israel had regathered in the northern region of Galilee, where Messiah spent most of His time.

That is, the land of Judea; for other lands, and countries, were not usually divided into tribes, as that was; neither were they affected with the calamities and desolations of it, and the vengeance of the son of man upon it; at least not so as to mourn on that account, but rather were glad and rejoiced: (JG)

The Greek word for ‘earth‘, ‘ge’, does not mean the whole earth, but rather it means ‘country or land’; in this context, the land of Judea.

It’s the same word used in Matthew 2:20, “Saying, Arise, and take the young child and his mother, and go into the land(ge) of Israel: for they are dead which sought the young child’s life.”

And the people of the land of Judea truly did mourn when they saw the power of Messiah commanding the mighty army coming against them.

The symbol of ‘clouds‘ can represent judgment. In this case the judgment of the Jewish nation, which had rejected Him and delivered Him up to be killed.

In Jeremiah 4:13 the word clouds is referring to the Babylonians whose army was coming against the Jews, as the Father’s judgment against them.

Behold, he shall come up as clouds, and his chariots shall be as a whirlwind: his horses are swifter than eagles. Woe unto us! for we are spoiled.”

In Zephaniah 1:15 the ‘dark, gloomy day of clouds’, is referring to the wrath of Elohim against his people for their sins; these judgments being the effects of his wrath, provoked by their iniquities; and of the wrath and cruelty of the Chaldeans, exercised in a furious manner

That day is a day of wrath, a day of trouble and distress, a day of wasteness and desolation, a day of darkness and gloominess, a day of clouds and thick darkness,”

Messiah coming in the clouds in Matthew 24:30 is speaking of His coming in great power to judge the Jews, by using the Roman army to desolate them and their temple; and to setup His kingdom, which would last forever.

Daniel 7:13-14 foretold that the Son of Man would come in the clouds of heaven!

I was watching in the night visions, And behold, One like the Son of Man, Coming with the clouds of heaven! He came to the Ancient of Days, And they brought Him near before Him. Then to Him was given dominion and glory and a kingdom, That all peoples, nations, and languages should serve Him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion, Which shall not pass away, And His kingdom the one Which shall not be destroyed.”

Historical witnesses of Messiah coming in power and glory:

Jewish historian Josephus, who documented the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple, witnessed chariots and troops of soldiers in their armor, running about among the clouds:

“Besides these [signs], a few days after that feast, on the one- and-twentieth day of the month Artemisius, [Jyar,] a certain prodigious and incredible phenomenon appeared; I suppose the account of it would seem to be a fable, were it not related by those that saw it, and were not the events that followed it of so considerable a nature as to deserve such signals; for, before sun-setting, chariots and troops of soldiers in their armour were seen running about among the clouds, and surrounding of cities. (Jewish Wars, VI-V-3).

The medieval Jewish historian Sepher Yosippon expounds upon this angelic army in the sky by saying,

“Moreover, in those days were seen chariots of fire and horsemen, a great force flying across the sky near to the ground coming against Jerusalem and all the land of Judah, all of them horses of fire and riders of fire.” (Sepher Yosippon A Mediaeval History of Ancient Israel translated from the Hebrew by Steven B. Bowman. Excerpts from Chapter 87 “Burning of the Temple”)

Matthew 24:27 reads, “For as lightning that comes from the east is visible even in the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man.”  This verse seems to suggest that lightning might mark the coming of the Son of Man on the clouds.

Historical confirmation of lightning marking the second coming of Christ may found in the writings of the Roman historian Tacitus:

In the sky appeared a vision of armies in conflict, of glittering armour.  A sudden lightening flash from the clouds lit up the Temple.  The doors of the holy place abruptly opened, a superhuman voice was heard to declare that the gods were leaving it, and in the same instant came the rushing tumult of their departure, (Tacitus The Histories 5.13.)

Commentaries from great theologians about Matthew 24:30:

Adam Clarke’s Commentary on the Bible

Then shall appear the sign of the Son of man – The plain meaning of this is, that the destruction of Jerusalem will be such a remarkable instance of Divine vengeance, such a signal manifestation of Christ’s power and glory, that all the Jewish tribes shall mourn, and many will, in consequence of this manifestation of God, be led to acknowledge Christ and his religion. By της γης , of the land, in the text, is evidently meant here, as in several other places, the land of Judea and its tribes, either its then inhabitants, or the Jewish people wherever found.

Coke’s Commentary on the Holy Bible

And then shall appear the sign, &c.— The plain meaning of this is, that the destruction of Jerusalem will be such a remarkable instance of divine vengeance, such a signal manifestation of Christ’s power and glory, that all the Jewish tribes shall mourn, and many will be thence led to acknowledge Christ and the Christian religion. In the ancient prophets God is frequently described as coming in the clouds, upon any remarkable interposition and manifestation of his power; and the same description is here applied to Christ. See Bishop Newton, and Gerhard’s Dissertations, p. 200, &c. and John 6:30. Dr. Clarke says, that the sign here mentioned means the figure given by the prophet Daniel, the signal of that Son of man there described. Instead of the tribes of the earth, some read the tribes of the land.

Professor Dr. Francis Nigel Lee

For at that time, Christ came invisibly – with the visible Roman armies – in order to destroy the Pharisees’ House in 70 A.D.

John Gill’s Exposition of the Entire Bible

he shall appear, not in person, but in the power of his wrath and vengeance, on the Jewish nation which will be a full sign and proof of his being come: for the sense is, that when the above calamities shall be upon the civil state of that people, and there will be such changes in their ecclesiastical state it will be as clear a point, that Christ is come in the flesh, and that he is also come in his vengeance on that nation, for their rejection and crucifixion him, as if they had seen him appear in person in the heavens. They had been always seeking a sign, and were continually asking one of him; and now they will have a sign with a witness; as they had accordingly,

And then shall the tribes of the earth, or land,

mourn; that is, the land of Judea; for other lands, and countries, were not usually divided into tribes, as that was; neither were they affected with the calamities and desolations of it, and the vengeance of the son of man upon it; at least not so as to mourn on that account, but rather were glad and rejoiced:

and they shall see the son of man coming in the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory. The Arabic version reads it, “ye shall see”, as is expressed by Christ, in Mt 26:64. Where the high priest, chief priests, Scribes, and elders, and the whole sanhedrim of the Jews are spoken to: and as the same persons, namely, the Jews, are meant here as there; so the same coming of the son of man is intended; not his coming at the last day to judgment; though that will be in the clouds of heaven, and with great power and glory; but his coming to bring on, and give the finishing stroke to the destruction of that people, which was a dark and cloudy dispensation to them: and when they felt the power of his arm, might, if not blind and stupid to the last degree, see the glory of his person, that he was more than a mere man, and no other than the Son of God, whom they had despised, rejected, and crucified; and who came to set up his kingdom and glory in a more visible and peculiar manner, among the Gentiles.

Messiah coming in the clouds in great power and glory clearly represents His judgment of the wicked Jews, as He oversaw their desolation by the Roman army.

David Nikao

Next Olivet Discourse Deception Study: The Abomination Of Desolation Deception

Matthew 24 - Messiah Coming In The Clouds With Power And Great Glory

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{ 21 comments… read them below or add one }

Thomas Mitchell October 12, 2017 at 5:04 am

This Generation: As to what and when
Luke 11:30 For as Jonas was a sign unto the Ninevites, so shall also the Son of man be to this generation.

Luke 11:32 The men of Nineve shall rise up in the judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: for they repented at the preaching of Jonas; and, behold, a greater than Jonas is here. [When did this happen?]

Luke 17:25 But first must he suffer many things, and be rejected of this generation.

Luke 21:32 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled.

Reply

David October 12, 2017 at 5:14 am

Luke 11:30 The sign of Jonah was given to that generation of Jews, when Messiah rose on the third day.

In Luke 11:32 Messiah was saying that the sins of the current generation were greater than that of the men of Nineve, who repented at the teaching of Jonah.

‘for they repented at the preaching of Jonas, and behold a greater than Jonas is here: what in this case will aggravate the condemnation of the Jews in the day of judgment is, that these men were Heathens, aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers to the covenants of promise, and were not used to have prophets sent to them; and yet as soon as Jonas, a mere man, came to them, and preached but one sermon among them, they repented of their sins, and turned from them; whereas the Jews, who had a better notion of religion, and who, though they had the Son of God himself among them, and preached to them, and that many sermons, and whose ministry was confirmed by miracles, and afterwards his apostles for a course of years, had yet remained impenitent and unbelieving;’ John Gill

Luke 17:25 Messiah was beaten, mocked, scourged and crucified; rejected by the Jewish leaders in that generation.

Luke 21:32 all of those things happened in that generation

Reply

Thomas Mitchell October 12, 2017 at 5:35 am

Luke 11:32 The men of Nineve shall rise up in the judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it… [When did Nineve rise up in judgement and condemn it?]

Reply

Thomas Mitchell October 12, 2017 at 5:44 am

Luke 21:32 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled.

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David October 12, 2017 at 3:16 pm

So why do you not take Messiah at His word Thomas?

Quotes from the great theologians about the meaning of ‘this generation‘:

Albert Barnes Albert Barnes’ Notes on the Bible (1832)

This generation, etc. This age; this race of men. A generation is about thirty or forty years. The destruction of Jerusalem took place about forty years after this was spoken. Cmt. on Mt 16:28.
Till all these things, etc. Till these things shall receive a full accomplishment. Till events shall take place that shall be a complete fulfillment, if there were nothing farther intended. He does not mean to exclude here the reference to the judgment, but to say that the destruction of Jerusalem would be such as to make appropriate the words of the prediction, were there nothing beyond. So when death was threatened to Adam, the propriety of the threatening would have been seen, and the threatening would have been fulfilled, had men suffered only temporal death. At the same time, the threatening had a fulness of meaning, that would cover also, and justify, eternal death in hell. Thus the words of Christ, describing the destruction of Jerusalem, had a fulness of signification that would meet also the events of the judgment, and whose meaning would not be filled up till the world was closed.

Adam Clarke’s Commentary on the Bible (1837)

“it is literally true in reference to the destruction of Jerusalem. John probably lived to see these things come to pass; compare Matthew 16:28, with John 21:22; and there were some rabbins alive at the time when Christ spoke these words who lived till the city was destroyed, viz. Rabban Simeon, who perished with the city; R. Jochanan ben Zaccai, who outlived it; R. Zadoch, R. Ismael, and others. See Lightfoot.” (Adam Clarke’s Commentary On Matthew 24)

C.H. Spurgeon (1868)

“The King left his followers in no doubt as to when these things should happen: “Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass till all these things be fulfilled.” It was just about the ordinary limit of a generation when the Roman armies compassed Jerusalem, whose measure of iniquity was then full, and overflowed in misery, agony, distress, and bloodshed such as the world never saw before or since. Jesus was a true Prophet; everything that he foretold was literally fulfilled.” (The Gospel of the Kingdom, p.218)

Geneva Bible Notes from the Protestant Reformers (1599)

“Matthew 24:34 Verily I say unto you, This {t} generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
(t) This age: the word “generation” or “age” is here being used for the men of this age.” (in loc.)

“For within fiftie yeres after, Jerusalem was destroied: the godlie were persecuted, false teachers seduced the people, religion was polluted, so that the worlde semed to be at an end.” (Matthew 24:34)

Jamieson, Fausset, Brown Commentary Critical and Explanatory on the Whole Bible 1871

“Whether we take this to mean that the whole would be fulfilled within the limits of the generation then current, or, according to a usual way of speaking, that the generation then existing would not pass away without seeing a begun fulfillment of this prediction, the facts entirely correspond. For either the whole was fulfilled in the destruction accomplished by Titus, as many think; or, if we stretch it out, according to others, till the thorough dispersion of the Jews, a little later, under Adrian, every requirement of our Lord’s words seem to be met.” (Commentary, Practical and Explanatory on the Whole Bible, 979)

John Calvin’s Calvin’s Commentary on the Bible

“The meaning therefore is: “This prophecy does not relate to evils that are distant, and which posterity will see after the lapse of many centuries, but which are now hanging over you, and ready to fall in one mass, so that there is no part of it which the present generation will not experience.” (in loc.)

“For within fifty years the city was destroyed and the temple was razed, the whole country was reduced to a hideous desert, and the obstinacy of the world rose up against God.” (Commentary on the Harmony of the Evangelists, Matthew, Mark, and Luke, vol. 3, trans. by William Pringle (Grand Rapids, MI: Eerdmans, 1949), 151.

“Though Christ employs a general expression, yet he does not extend the discourses to all the miseries which would befall the Church, but merely informs them, that before a single generation shall have been completed, they will learn by experience the truth of what he has said. For within fifty years the city was destroyed and the temple was raised, the whole country was reduced to a hideous desert, and the obstinacy of the world rose up against God. Nay more, their rage was inflamed to exterminate the doctrine of salvation, false teachers arose to corrupt the pure gospel by their impostures, religion sustained amazing shocks, and the whole company of the godly was miserably distressed. Now though the same evils were perpetrated in uninterrupted succession for many ages afterwards, yet what Christ said was true, that, before the close of a single generation, believers would feel in reality, and by undoubted experience, the truth of his prediction; for the apostles endured the same things which we see in the present day. And yet it was not the design of Christ to promise to his followers that their calamities would be terminated within a short time, (for then he would have contradicted himself, having previously warned them that the end was not yet;) but, in order to encourage them to perseverance, he expressly foretold that those things related to their own age. The meaning therefore is: “This prophecy does not relate to evils that are distant, and which posterity will see after the lapse of many centuries, but which are now hanging over you, and ready to fall in one mass, so that there is no part of it which the present generation will not experience.” So then, while our Lord heaps upon a single generation every kind of calamities, he does not by any means exempt future ages from the same kind of sufferings, but only enjoins the disciples to be prepared for enduring them all with firmness (Commentary on a Harmony of the Evangelists, Matthew, Mark, and Luke, vol.3, tr. William Pringle, Eerdmans, 1949, pp. 151, 152).

John Gill’s Exposition of the Entire Bible (1809)

“Verily I say unto you, this generation shall not pass, etc. Not the generation of men in general; as if these sense was, that mankind should not cease, until the accomplishment of these things; nor the generation, or people of the Jews, who should continue to be a people, until all were fulfilled; nor the generation of Christians; as if the meaning was, that there would always be a set of Christians, or believers of Christ in the world, till all these events came to pass; but it respects that present age, or generation of men then living in it; and the sense is, that all the men of that age should not die, but some should live till all things were fulfilled; see Matt. xvi.27-28, as many did, and as there is reason to believe they might, and must, since all these things had their accomplishment, in and about forty years after this: and certain it is that John, one of the disciples of Christ outlived the time by many years; and, as Dr. Lightfoot observes, many of the Jewish doctors now living, when Christ spoke these words, lived until the city was destoryed; as Rabbi Simeon, who perished with it, R. Jochanan be Zaccai, who outlived it, R. Zadoch, R. Ishmael, and others: this is a full and clear proof, that not any thing that is said before, related to the second coming of Christ, the day of judgment, and the end of the world; but that all belong to the coming of the Son of man, in the destruction of Jerusalem, and to the end of the Jewish state.” (vol 2, 1809, p. 240)

John Wesley’s Notes on the Bible (1754)

“This generation of men now living shall not pass till all these things be done – The expression implies that great part of that generation would be passed away, but not the whole. Just so it was; for the city and temple were destroyed thirty-nine or forty years after.”

David October 12, 2017 at 3:14 pm

Thomas, I answered that question. Here is is again:

In Luke 11:32 Messiah was saying that the sins of the current generation were greater than that of the men of Nineve, who repented at the teaching of Jonah.

‘for they repented at the preaching of Jonas, and behold a greater than Jonas is here: what in this case will aggravate the condemnation of the Jews in the day of judgment is, that these men were Heathens, aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers to the covenants of promise, and were not used to have prophets sent to them; and yet as soon as Jonas, a mere man, came to them, and preached but one sermon among them, they repented of their sins, and turned from them; whereas the Jews, who had a better notion of religion, and who, though they had the Son of God himself among them, and preached to them, and that many sermons, and whose ministry was confirmed by miracles, and afterwards his apostles for a course of years, had yet remained impenitent and unbelieving;’ John Gill

Reply

Thomas Mitchell October 13, 2017 at 12:36 am

As to Matthew 24:30
Acts 1:9 And when He had spoken these things, while they beheld, He was taken up; and a cloud received Him out of their sight.
10. And while they looked steadfastly toward heaven as He went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;
11. Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen Him go into heaven.
[Was Jesus Christ seen in like manner around 70 A.D.?]

Reply

David October 13, 2017 at 12:53 am

The symbol of ‘clouds‘ can represent judgment. In this case the judgment of the Jewish nation, which had rejected Him and delivered Him up to be killed.

In Jeremiah 4:13 the word clouds is referring to the Babylonians whose army was coming against the Jews, as the Father’s judgment against them.

“Behold, he shall come up as clouds, and his chariots shall be as a whirlwind: his horses are swifter than eagles. Woe unto us! for we are spoiled.”

In Zephaniah 1:15 the ‘dark, gloomy day of clouds’, is referring to the wrath of Elohim against his people for their sins; these judgments being the effects of his wrath, provoked by their iniquities; and of the wrath and cruelty of the Chaldeans, exercised in a furious manner

“That day is a day of wrath, a day of trouble and distress, a day of wasteness and desolation, a day of darkness and gloominess, a day of clouds and thick darkness,”

This is exactly what happened in 70 A.D., when Messiah caused the mighty Roman army to desolate the temple, city and Jews.

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Thomas Mitchell October 13, 2017 at 1:27 am

That is quite a stretch of the imagination for “come in like manner”, is it not?

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Thomas Mitchell October 13, 2017 at 1:14 am

Luke 21:27 And then they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. 28 But when these things begin to take place, straighten up and lift up your heads, because your redemption is drawing near.

[How does this agree with Acts 1: 9-11 as to an event that has already happened?]

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Thomas Mitchell October 13, 2017 at 1:21 am

Acts 1:9 And when He had spoken these things, while they beheld, He was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight. 10 And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as He went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel; 11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.

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David October 13, 2017 at 2:41 am

They are not the same event. Acts 1:9-11 is about Messiah GOING, as He ascended to heaven. Luke 21:27 is Messiah coming in power and glory, in judgment of the Jews, in causing the Roman army to desolate the temple, city and Jews. That is the context of the Olivet Discourse. The desolation of the temple, and the sign that it was about to occur.

I am not going to keep commenting, as you’re not here to learn anything. I take Messiah at His word, that all of the things that He described would be fulfilled in that generation of Jews. And I have provided plenty of evidence to prove that all of those things did happen.

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Thomas Mitchell October 13, 2017 at 12:39 am

Luke 11:32 The men of Nineve shall rise up in the judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it… [When did Nineve rise up in judgement and condemn it?]

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David October 13, 2017 at 12:54 am

Thomas, I answered that question. Here is is again:

In Luke 11:32 Messiah was saying that the sins of the current generation were greater than that of the men of Nineve, who repented at the teaching of Jonah.

‘for they repented at the preaching of Jonas, and behold a greater than Jonas is here: what in this case will aggravate the condemnation of the Jews in the day of judgment is, that these men were Heathens, aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers to the covenants of promise, and were not used to have prophets sent to them; and yet as soon as Jonas, a mere man, came to them, and preached but one sermon among them, they repented of their sins, and turned from them; whereas the Jews, who had a better notion of religion, and who, though they had the Son of God himself among them, and preached to them, and that many sermons, and whose ministry was confirmed by miracles, and afterwards his apostles for a course of years, had yet remained impenitent and unbelieving;’ John Gill

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Thomas Mitchell October 13, 2017 at 1:47 am

Are you saying that the men of Nineve at the time of Jonas rose up at the time of Jerusalem’s destruction, around 70 A.D., in judgement and condemnation when there are centuries of time separating the two occurrences? Or does this pertain to a future judgement event that has not yet happened?

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David October 13, 2017 at 2:37 am

I’ve answered this same question several times Thomas. Messiah was not saying that the people of Nineve were literally going to come some day in judgment of the Jews. He was saying that the wicked deeds of the Jews were worse that what the people of Nineve did. And He said that even the people of Nineve, pagans, repented; but the Jews, people who had Scriptural truth; did not.

He was saying that the wicked Jews were going to be judged much harder than the people of Nineve.

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Thomas Mitchell October 13, 2017 at 3:42 am

Your quote:”So why do you not take Messiah at His word Thomas?”
I assume you mean in strict literal usage, then why do you not take “Messiah at His word” David as it pertains to strict literal usage: Luke 11:32 The men of Nineve shall rise up in the judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it…

Thomas Mitchell October 13, 2017 at 3:54 am

Generation comes from the root word gene as in genealogy pertaining to offspring. Thus, offspring can refer to those in the past, present and future as it relates to time line events.

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David October 13, 2017 at 3:48 am

Because one is a clear statement, which we have proof that it was literally fulfilled, the temple was literally destroyed; and that is the context of the Olivet Discourse.

The other statement is hyperbole. Do you really think at some point that the Ninevites are going to come back to life and judge the Jews? That is ridiculous.

I am done with this discussion, as you obviously have nothing to learn from me.

The studies give the explanations. There is enough evidence to see the truth, that indeed all of those things did take place in that generation; which lines up with Messiah’s clear, simple statement.

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Thomas Mitchell October 13, 2017 at 3:58 am

Yes they took place in 70 A.D. and will most likely take place again, for how else can you explain Matthew 25:31-32
Matthew 25:31 ¶ When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: 32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:

Reply

Thomas Mitchell October 13, 2017 at 4:03 am

The Great White Throne Judgment and the Resurrection
Your quote: “Do you really think at some point that the Ninevites are going to come back to life and judge the Jews?”
If you believe in the final Resurrection, then yes the Ninevites will give testimony.

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